42 replies to this topic

[kwill1229]

I think I've made a terrible mistake with ASO. I have been trying for two days to move my old site over.  It's not that big of a site and I'm not even trying to move all of it over, mostly just WordPress files and some images.

FTP works...for a while...then does nothing.  It doesn't disconnect, it just never transfers the files.

I chose ASO based on great reviews of the customer server and easy of use.  My previous host had terrible customer service, so I was looking forward to a change.

It should not take 2+ days to move a small site.  I also think that not having real time support (either with the Live Chat always manned or telephone support) is more of a problem than I thought it would be.  The fact that it's taking me so long (and so many retries) to upload my site and ASO offering no grace period on bandwidth during initial set up concerns me.

Is my "slice of the pie" so limited that it will take me a week to upload?  That's not what I expected when I signed up.

[oddcrap]

Terrible Sorry to hear that. I used to be a customer with ASO well (I do have 1 site left) but most our sites are with http://www.xxxxx.net They have better hardware anyway to my knowledge.


Theplanet.com (which ASO uses) is terrible.. they're are celeron processors with barely 512 mb of ram. I've recommended quite a few ASO people to xxxx and have gotten nothing but positive feedback. I recommend you give them a shot.

Edited by [ASO] Seth, 04 January 2007 - 08:45 PM.

[-ASO- Tim]

Terrible Sorry to hear that. I used to be a customer with ASO well (I do have 1 site left) but most our sites are with http://www.xxxxx.net They have better hardware anyway to my knowledge.


Theplanet.com (which ASO uses) is terrible.. they're are celeron processors with barely 512 mb of ram. I've recommended quite a few ASO people to XMS and have gotten nothing but positive feedback. I recommend you give them a shot.

Clearly you have no idea of what you're talking about. We don't use Celerons at all. None of them. We host the majority of our clients here in Atlanta at Atlanta NAP and all new customers go there as well. They're all dual core machines with dual SCSI or SATA RAID arrays and plenty of RAM to go around. Please stop lying and trying to covertly advertise some other company.

Now as for the issue at hand, have you tried use PASV (Passive) Mode to upload in your FTP client? That's critical, otherwise it just won't work.

[kwill1229]

Tim:

Yes, I am using Passive Mode.  The Live Chat person had me check that early this morning.  It doesn't disconnect now (or tell me I have too many connections from my IP), but after 5-6 hours, I moved exactly 0 (zero) files.

I also was unable to find the Live Chat operational during the course of the afternoon.

I'm no novice to computers, servers, web sites, etc.  I work in that business myself.  I understand sharing resources, but it seems to me that it should be easier than this to upload a couple of directories.

[BJ-ATL]

Normally if you're unable to upload or have disconnects in the middle of an upload it's a firewall issue, not a resource issue. It takes very little server resources to upload. Either your ftp client doesn't like ours or there is a conflict between your firewall and ours. Using SFTP mode will solve this 99% of the time, submit a ticket for SSH access if you don't have it already. SFTP is more secure also as regular ftp will send your login details as plaintext.

[ukdmbfan]

As BJ said, if you've come to the conclusion that you not being able to move any files in several hours means that ASO is providing a slow service, then you're clearly not using common sense. It's much more likely a firewall and/or network issue of some kind that's preventing the files from moving from source to destination.

SFTP or SCP is the way to go anyway... request SSH access from support, download WinSCP and you'll never look back to standard FTP again. You'll have your site uploaded in no time.

[Joel]

I still don't understand why ASO's firewall is the ONLY one I ever have problems with. Seriously; if you use multiple FTP sites and only one causes problems, is it not normal to conclude that the one that's causing problems is the problem? Why should we need some voodoo FTP access when everyone else on the planet (Earth) seems to work? I shouldn't need to request SSH access and install a specific FTP client for my users to use FTP, that's just nuts.

Edited by Joel, 04 January 2007 - 09:48 AM.

[monty]

I still don't understand why ASO's firewall is the ONLY one I ever have problems with. Seriously; if you use multiple FTP sites and only one causes problems, is it not normal to conclude that the one that's causing problems is the problem? Why should we need some voodoo FTP access when everyone else on the planet (Earth) seems to work? I shouldn't need to request SSH access and install a specific FTP client for my users to use FTP, that's just nuts.

While I follow your logic, sadly I don't think the number of (non-wide-open) ftp servers people interact with is great enough to warrant a conclusion that ASOs FTP setup is SO unique that it is wrong for it to be the way it is. However I would therefore (because of the low sample size) agree that a high percentage of customers do probably initially find ASOs FTP connection problematic.

As for ASOs FTP connection requriments being more demanding, I don't think that is necessarily a valid basis to drop things to the lowest common denominator. I think high percentage of the websites I browse are craply designed, with horrible bits of javascript, confusing UI, etc. But that doesn't mean I think all should be like that.

Perhaps an in-your-face statement somewhere that 'ASOs FTP requriments may be more fussy than you might be used to' would prevent fealings that things dont work propperly.

Edited by monty, 04 January 2007 - 11:29 AM.

[KimmiKat]

Thanks for the link.  

A for the FTP, I encountered the same thing until I checked my computer firewall settings and made a couple of changes.  One those tweaks were made, it was no issue.  My firewall will block IPs from proggies like FTP, Dreamweaver, etc. unless you tell it's ok to send them through.

As BJ said, if you've come to the conclusion that you not being able to move any files in several hours means that ASO is providing a slow service, then you're clearly not using common sense. It's much more likely a firewall and/or network issue of some kind that's preventing the files from moving from source to destination.

SFTP or SCP is the way to go anyway... request SSH access from support, download WinSCP and you'll never look back to standard FTP again. You'll have your site uploaded in no time.

[kwill1229]

Thanks to all of you for your advice and comments.

My opinion remains unchanged at this point.  It took me 3 days to upload my site.  Yesterday, the files I had struggled to import the day before was gone...an entire directory disappeared overnight.  I imported again...took most of the day.  Toward the end of the day, I felt like I was at least back online with the most important part of my site, two blogs.  Total size of my site?  Less that 62 meg.

This morning?  One of the blogs was gone.  All the posts, all the WordPress settings...everything.  A check of the database showed a database that was not the one that was there yesterday.  No, I hadn't touched it from the time I posted a quick "we're back online" message and this morning.  I had to redo...again.

So far, this has been a colossal waste of time and more than a little bit upsetting.  I thought my previous host was unreliable, and they were, but ASO has not shown any stability at all.  I really didn't expect I would have to start from scratch, every day.  

As for the FTP reliability, the result was the same with multiple computers on multiple networks, and in some of those cases, a firewall was not a factor.

Lucky for me, this is a personal website.  If I was using ASO for business or with a revenue generating website, I'd be livid.

[dhdesign]

Kwill -

I would contact ASO via a support ticket and give them a link to your latest post.  Something is wonky in your account setup, it sounds like.  Hopefully they can help you get things sorted out.

With regard to the FTP issue, what type of internet connection do you have - dialup or some type of broadband?

[kwill1229]

I have a cable modem at home.  I have to say I never experienced the disconnect/transfer errors with my previous host.  Even when I was downloading from them within the last couple of days.  I would download my site (pages & dbs) and then try to upload to ASO using the same connection, same FTP client, etc.   At work (not that I would ever use my work internet connection for non-work purposes. ahem...), I move along on a LAN at 1Gbps.

Now, I remember my first computer having a 1200 baud external modem, but I've upgraded since then.  

Thanks for the advice on the support ticket.  I'll do that.

Kwill -

I would contact ASO via a support ticket and give them a link to your latest post.  Something is wonky in your account setup, it sounds like.  Hopefully they can help you get things sorted out.

With regard to the FTP issue, what type of internet connection do you have - dialup or some type of broadband?

[AndrewB]

NcFTP's website has a good explanation of the 1970's era FTP protocol and why it has problems in a new millennium technolgy environment.

http://www.ncftp.com/ncftpd/doc/misc/ftp_and_firewalls.html

This problem isn't limited to ASO. I ran into this exact same issue with IIS web/ftp servers and Checkpoint Firewall at a corp gig I worked at some years ago. We ended up scrapping FTP entirely for that project and moving to some document-sharing software running over WebDAV (which presented a whole new set of problems).


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[samh]

Well from my experience it's not the size of the files that lead to slow uploads here, it's simply the amount of individual files. If i upload a folder structure with many files it will take a long time, but if i compress/upload/decompress on the server it is miles faster.

[AndrewB]

Well from my experience it's not the size of the files that lead to slow uploads here, it's simply the amount of individual files. If i upload a folder structure with many files it will take a long time, but if i compress/upload/decompress on the server it is miles faster.

Yes, that will be because for every file, there will be a PORT or PASV connection. If there is one file, there will be the connection on port 21, then the PORT/PASV for the one file transfer. If there are five files, then there is the initial port 21, then five PORT/PASV connections. If you have twenty files, then there is the one port 21 connection and twenty PORT/PASV connections.

It's the continued PORT/PASV connections that trips up the firewall because the pattern of connections look very much like a scan or attack. The connections usually either go in sequence (port 16224, 16225, 16226, 16227, etc) or random (port 14223, 16447, 23005, etc) depending on the client/server.

That's why we usually just enable SSH and say "Use SFTP or SCP", because it only uses one port for the connection. And connections to that port are allowed.


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[whispers]

I to am experiencing the SAME EXACT problems as the original poster. (to a "T")

after all of this?  what IS the final outcome?  

too bad?

ASO is too advanced for FTP to work like it does for anyone else?

Use something else! (change your routine)

took me several days to get 139 megs over.. (and loosing it several times as well for whatever reason)..

I also am here because it seems the newly uploaded files (just one big transfer form old to new ASO host) and my dev/projects dont work.. they do NOT load any XML files..etc...etc..

is there something that needs to be set for XML?  I cant seem to search either as XML wont parse..and there are no wild cards* to be used.

[deronsizemore]

Hi!

I'm having similar issues also.  I'm using FileZilla and cannot transfer folders over to the remote server.  If it's an individual file it's fine, but if I try to drag say an 'images' folder over with ten or so images inside the folder, it does nothing.  It's like I'm not even doing anything.  I click and try to upload and it just sets there, doesn't tell me any status or anything.  

This just all of a sudden started happening, so I don't know what the problem is.  I've used FileZilla for nearly two years with no problems and used FileZilla with my old host without problem so I don't know what's going on.  

I really doubt that it's ASO, I just can't figure out what it is.  I've just tried everything.  I've put it in passive mode, turned firewalls off, I even went as far today to reinstall a fresh copy of windows on my machine and it still doesn't work.  

[dhdesign]

Rather than reinstalling Windows, maybe you should try reinstalling the latest version of Filezilla, or try another FTP program, like SmartFTP and see if you are still having the same issues.

[AndrewB]

I described the general problem in this post.

More specifically, iptables (the Linux firewall software) we use does have a Connection Tracking module specifically to assist in tracking the PORT/PASV connections that happen during an FTP session, but if a packet arrives out-of-state or otherwise violates some basic sanity checks, the packet will get dropped. That's why some people never have a problem with FTP, and other people always have a problem with FTP. There are a lot of variables, including things like operating system TCP/IP stacks, FTP client behavior, FTP server behavior, Windows XP Firewall, Norton Firewall, Linux iptables server firewall, etc, etc, etc.

Solution: remove most of the variables. Use SFTP. It works.

In my personal opinion, FTP should go the way of telnet. They both suffer from the inherent flaws of passwords and data being broadcast to the world in plaintext. 10 minutes of sitting in an Internet cafe with Ethereal or another packet sniffer will instill a certain level of paranoia that will have you reading up on public key cryptography within minutes.

[ray]

I've been having this problem too. I think I may have made a mistake with ASO too.

I'm sure it happens on other hosts. But I've never seen that. I realize it's "70's technology," but ASO can't get it right?? It seems to me that working, reliable FTP is absolutely, completely fundamental to a web host. What gets me is that I'm allowed to FTP, but about 1 in 10 times, it ERASES MY FILE. That's right. It creates an empty file on ASO. The other day, this inexplicable error lost me several hours work.

I was given two options. Either edit the file via SSH on the server, also using 70's technology basically, except worse, because then I can't use my modern text editor. This was suggested because it "leaves a backup copy" behind, in case something goes wrong. Well you know what? Nothing "goes wrong" on my other hosts! Ever! I can count on FTP.

The other suggestion made sense: ask us to enable SFTP. Well you know what? Many other hosts insist on SFTP. In fact, if SFTP solves the problem, why not have everybody use it?!? I would much, much, much rather pull down my little dropdown menu and select SFTP and work happily away, then to have files erased on me. That's just not acceptable. I repeat, not acceptable.

We're a web design company. We do this for a living. We recommend hosting for clients, several times a month. Businesses that offer shared hosting benefit from offering reliable service, because we can be counted on to bring them business. But we also keep a list of bad guys. Hosting companies with big, big problems that make them just not worth the effort. Like hosts with broken FTP service. That can really ruin your day.

And until this is once and for all, fully a solved problem on ASO, until that time, ASO is on our bad host list. We won't be using or recommending ASO anymore. Maybe we're just "little guys," but I do hope that this is taken seriously. I mean every word of it. Please. Fix this problem.